*Speaker Key: 
-Julian Carvajal/Host: JC
-Charles Smith/Guest: CS
*Note: Interview has been divided into segments based on the questions asked with time stamps marking minutes and seconds. 


PODCAST BEGINS
* [00:00-00:09] Julian Carvajal/Host: Thank you so much Charles for accepting this invite to be part of our podcast. It is my pleasure to interview you here today. 


Charles, can you tell us who you are?


* [00:10-00:40] Charles Smith/Guest: So, I’m Charles Smith. I’m a “variety of things”: I’m the Executive Director of Cultural Pluralism in the Arts Movement Ontario, I am a performing poet and sometimes I dance. Ah, and I’m the Artistic Director of a multidisciplinary group called Winds in the Leaves Collective. Ahm, I’ve got 14 books; my 15th book will be out in the Fall and I teach at Humber College right now in Arts Management . 


So, as I said, “variety of things” that I do and keep myself active and busy. 


* [00:40-00:47] JC: Wow! Many hats are the ones that you’re wearing [host laughs]. 


Ah, Charles, what is your connection with North York Arts?


* [00:48-01:44] CS: Ah, North York Arts has been connected to both sides of CPAMO and Wind in the Leaves Collective. 


I think initially our collaborative work actually began with Wind in the Leaves but we did some work with a group of Latina grandmas- I guess you call them the ‘Abuelitas’ up on Bathurst and Lawrence Avenue- and that was a really wonderful connection. 


We would work with them for a couple of months and then with CPAMO we always give advice, learn from North York Arts about their work around community engagement. 


Ahm, you know, Lila has been an amazing, ahm, Director and she’s got a really great team: Cecilia, Melissa, Rachel are working for, ahm, them, so they joined our Pluralism Organizational change, a second group and we connected much more through that up to working with them around on their strategic plan, ahm, and more recently with the recruitment for the new Executive Director. 


* [01:45-01:53] JC: Charles, eh, what is the role that an organization like NYA can play in building out equity and/or diversity in the arts sector?


* [01:53-02:48] CS: One of the things that I think North York Arts does incredibly well is its community engagement in a really rapidly changing and diverse community: racially, culturally, linguistically and to me, that is a model of how you bring communities together; to understand each other.


Using the arts as a tool, not just a tool but, as you know, a process -I would wanna call that- that helps people to understand each other and that builds connections to people so they can see the commonalities and differences in their lives and begin to understand, you know, what it is it means to be here in Canada today and the kinds of things we need to do with and for each other, that will make this place, the place we want it to be. 


That’s the power of the arts is to be able to bring people together through the power of the imagination and through story. That opens up our lives to others and that's why, you know, we've worked with North York Arts in the past and we’ll work with North York Arts in the future. 


* [02:49-02:55] JC: We hope for the same as well. What kind of initiatives and actions would you like to see more of North York Arts and the sector in general?


* [02:56-04:20] CS: Oh, now it's a particular time where we need a much more of a sharper focus on things like anti-racism and I also mean it in the context of, you know, differentiating racialized groups because we are not all the same. 


We have different challenges and issues, ahm, that we have different stories in ways of our practice and that's an area that I think we need to open up a bit more: What is the difference from, let's say, Black arts practice to, let’s say, South Asian arts practice, to a Latino arts practice; to an Asian arts practice.


And even within, you know, some black artists, but you know, there are many different art forms within the black community depending on where one comes from, whether one is from the continent of Africa and various nations there: Ghana, Nigeria, South Africa, The Congo, etc; or whether one comes from the Caribbean and/or one has been living in North America all of their lives. So, those are the areas that I find is, how do we open up to be more open to, you know, location and history tells us a lot about what’s formed us and that is really important to understanding stories.


So I’d like to see how we can open up that a bit more and I think that North York Arts with some of its community engagement programs is actually doing some of that already. So for example if I go back to as we covered, the ‘Abuelitas’, I mean they were from Chile, Colombia, Peru, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and they were very up front about the different cultures, you know the language is the same certainly but, the culture is very different and that came through in the work that we did with them. 


* [04:21-04:35] JC: That is great, that is true! I'm from Colombia and sometimes when I'm talking to my friends from Mexico or from Nicaragua, we use different words for different things so it can be confusing as well. 


Charles, what are you hoping to see more in the arts scene in the city?


* [04:36-05:45] CS: Well you know I think right now the Arts are going to need to play a critical role in the reopening of our society as we come out of Covid and one of the things that I think art is really important is bringing about healing.


So for example CPAMO is right now planning an event in December called ‘Art in Time of Healing’, the importance of the indigenous black people of colour arts practices. And to us it is really important to really focus on that and I mean right now, you know, we look at the Earth and we say, “land acknowledgements” but I also want to know how much we really understand the importance of the land. 


Without the land we wouldn't have water, we wouldn’t have trees, which means we wouldn't have air, we wouldn’t have plants, we wouldn't have animals, we wouldn’t have food. We wouldn't have anything that we need to sustain ourselves, so how do we begin to rethink along these lines and, you know, to be able to put art out there that allow us to see these things more clearly directly and with a connection, and with full respect for the indigenous peoples who were here from time immemorial and these were their practices that we are now here as settler or however we got here, recognize and honour.


* [05:45-06:06] JC: Ahm, I was having a conversation with the city of Toronto for the project that we’ve been working on for next year for Art Works deal and I was talking about how sometimes visual arts can contribute to more garbage and how can we create more programs for outside cleaning, and be more responsible with Earth. 


Hey Charles, what are your wishes for the next 10 years for North York Arts?


* [06:07-07:19] CS: Ahm, you know, I think North York Arts is a real model for Local Art Service Organizations. 


So I think some promotion of that work is really critical. I will be helpful to the Arts Ecology and you know with CPAMO, we look forward to continuing our work with North York Arts in a different way that we have in the past. We are always there and we hope to have North York Arts, we anticipate they will always be there, that we will work as allies and collaborators when the opportunities arise. 


I think  we have to raise our voices a bit more about communities that have been left out of the center, particularly in the Arts, you know the Arts-Ecology has been built in a time where Indigenous Arts practices were against the law and in which many Arts practices coming outside of the Eurocentric model were considered to be primitive or folk, not high art. Those days are over, they should never have been. They certainly are over now. And how we push for that happening in recognizing and more and more publicly when it comes to organizations like North York Arts doing the work it's doing in its area but also collaborating with others who are doing the work in other areas and more broadly. 


So that's my wish for the next decade, is that the arts become a catalyst for social transformation.


* [07:20-07:34] JC: Thank you so much, that's very inspiring. We hope to make it there, you know? The expectations to fulfill these expectations. 


Charles, last question, is there anything else that you think makes unique or special North York Arts?


* [07:35-08:28] CS: Ahm, well, I mean, I, you know? I think what makes North York Arts to me very special is it's ongoing and sort of tireless engagement. 


I mean as someone who works with North York Arts on the strategic plan is like wow! You folks are doing all this? And a very dedicated group of people, a staff and board I mean, and they are very aligned as well. You know, just working with them on the strategic plan. 


And as I said in the recruitment, it was really amazing to see how beautifully people shared with each other, came to agreements even if there were disagreements working them through not with any hostility or you know intense debate. Just like ‘okay just let me understand what you're trying to say’, ‘oh! I see’, and that kind of stuff. 


So I think that that is really a beautiful model for how board and staff work together to supporting important programming that is happening in the community.


* [08:29-08:30] JC: Thank you so much Charles. 
PODCAST ENDS (The recording keeps going till minute 09:34 but there is no audio to transcribe)